Written by Gill Rapley

Gill Rapley is Deputy Programme Director of Unicef Baby Friendly Initiative. She is an ex-health visitor, midwife, NCT breastfeeding counsellor and lactation consultant.

This material is © iwantmymum.com as such this document should not be reproduced either online or in print without express permission.

Gill says: “The baby-led approach to the introduction of solid foods is based on common sense. It is neither new, nor ‘mine’. Many mothers of more than one child have discovered it”

Wednesday 14th April

Number of users in chatroom: 36

[The Lounge] Gill Rapley has entered at 7:58 pm

[Gill Rapley] Hello everyone! I am feeling very virginal (by which I mean inexperienced, not pure!)
[Gill Rapley] You all have such weird names!
[Zanna] Blame the parents!

[tinksbell] Gill we are in the early days of blw and have experienced a wierd gagging - nothing drastic more surprise than fear. Just wondered if this is ok ? it has particularly happended with steamed parsnip and carrot but not banana for example - annalise mentioned something about chew and suck foods ????

[Gill Rapley] Tinksbell: Gagging seems to be reasonably common but I have had no reports of any harm resulting. Interestingly, the babies don’t seem to be at all botheres by it - just the mums!

[Annalisa] why do babies gag gill?

[Gill Rapley] Annalisa: Gagging is a response to food going a little too far back in the mouth for what nature considers safe - the baby spontaneously pushes the offending item forward. The spot on the tongue where the gag reflex is triggered ‘moves’ back during the first few months of life, so very young babies gag more easily than older babies. Yes - work through it, always making sure the baby is in control of what goes in his/her mouth.

[tinksbell] so your suggestion would be to just work through it - i guess it must be a huge shock when you swallow something for the first time.
[Mrs Hugs] I think also as mums how we *deal* with them making the gagging noise is more to do with our emotions than the fact that there is actually a problem?!

[Annalisa] Gill one question lots of mums have asked is that if they let their babies lead they tend to eat lots of bread and things like that, but if they feed them puree they can get a more balanced diet into their babies so should they just let them get on with the BL way or ‘help things along”?
[Rosie] I wondered that actually
[clairebecky] I was wondering that too
[Rosie] because there’s only a limited amount of properly solid stuff

[Gill Rapley] Re balanced diet: What we have to remember is that breastfeeding is the perfect balanced diet for babies under 6 months and pretty much so for babies over that age as well. If you’re offering the breast whenever baby wants (and for all drinks) then the intake of this perfect food will remain high. The theory is that the baby will begin to add what might be slightly lacking by himself, guided by taste. this is why it is important to offer a range of foods and let the baby decide.

[Annalisa] So let them eat what they want even if it involves no veg!?
[abi113] : Yes that is what i was going to ask - how do we give them porridge , yoghurt etc
[Diana] This is my problem, too - how do they feed themselves if utensils are required?

[Gill Rapley] OK. it’s fine to give runny foods off a spoon if you want baby to have them, though there’s probably no particular need. I’ve heard it said that most runny foods (other than breastmilk) were probably not intended for humans to eat anyway! having said all that, some babies can manage amazingly with their fingers!
[Gill Rapley] It’s also amazing how soon they can learn to use a spoon themselves.

[115vaw] Hi. I’m really frightened of what specific things you should/shouldn’t give. On the bread front for example, wholemeal or what? toasted? - seems rather coarse to me. Should it be spread with something greasy?

[Gill Rapley] The beauty of waiting till 6 mths is that you don’t have to be careful about dairy, wheat etc. (unless there’s a family history of allergy. In terms of texture - what’s important is to let the baby control things and not worry if he spits an awful lot out at first. He (sorry - there all going to be boys tonight!) is working out what textures he can cope with.

[tinksbell] I have been told that bread is really bad because is sort of coagulates and gunks up rather than breaking down ????

[Gill Rapley] If anything, soft bread is less easy as it tends to stick to the roof of the mouth. Toast is usually better!

[Zanna] we have found that bread is one of peggys favoutires so far cos she can really get her fingers into it.

[Diana] And if they are mostly blw, are they likely to overeat if they are occasionally fed with a spoon? (I’m worried that they’re overfeeding her at nursery!)

[Gill Rapley] Diana: Without wanting to scare anybody, it really does seem as though the habits of overeating do begin in infancy. however, my own feeling is that breastfed babies are better able to say ‘I’ve had enough’ than those who are bottle fed, who have commonly been encouraged to ‘finish the last ounce’ from very young.

[Kerry] there is research to back that up gill
[clairebecky] I think that makes sense cos bf babies regulate their feeds right from the start and it varies so much from day to day.

[115vaw] what about the butter?

[Gill Rapley] butter: Why not offer with and without butter and see which the baby prefers?

[Gill Rapley] Before the next question I really want to clarify some basics - coming up.

[Gill Rapley] There has been very little research into the HOW of introducing solids - almost all has been into the WHEN. (Funny that we now know this is 6 months which, if we had left it to the babies, they could probably have shown us very clearly!). … Anyway, I think I am the first person, at least in the last 50 years, to really question all of this (out loud, anyway). My own research is a small study, about to be published. But all this is really nothing new: Mothers of 3 and more children often ‘admit’ to weaning their children this way - but not to any health professional! It’s a well-kept secret.We do know quite a bit about how babies use their mouths and about their hand-eye co-ordination. All I have done is to link this knowledge up with feeding. Finally (and then I’ll shut up) …There appears to be absolutely no research basis for the conventional method of purees and spoons!

[Diana] What are the issues with wanting to do blw after 6 months of formula feeding?

[Gill Rapley] Hi Diana. The short answer is that we don’t know, but I see no reason why these babies can’t do the same thing. The biggest difference is that they will need to be offered drinks earlier than breastfed babies as they can’t use formula to quench their thirst.

[Annalisa] Gill I have a question

[Gill Rapley] Yes

[Annalisa] I did the puree route with Raffy, she went onto solids at 7 months
[Annalisa] Is it too late to do BLW now?

[Gill Rapley] I don’t see why. The only problem I can spot is that she might get frustrated at not being able to shovel it in quickly enough, as her skills have possibly not kept pace with her appetite

[Annalisa] Rosie did you have a Q? About how quickly to introduce foods?

[Rosie] I wondered about the bit saying you don’t have to worry about introducing one food at a time. How does that work in relation to the commonly given advice saying to introduce only one food every 3 days to watch for a reaction, and not to give certain foods (nuts, strawberries) until after a certain age?

[Gill Rapley] Hi Rosie. What we have to get a handle on is the fact that the current advice was devised for babies who were too young to be having a mixed diet. Because of the immature gut in young babies, mothers were advised to proceed with caution. A baby of 6 mths has a much more robust digestive system and a more mature immune system, so the same careful approach isn’t necessary. But you have hit on the reason why so many mothers (and health professionals) are finding the 6 miths thing difficult to adjust to. they don’t understand how you can go from zero to 3 meals a day in two weeks flat! Babies don’t have these doubts!

[Charlotte] If you introduced a lot at once would it not be harder to identify if something did trigger an allergic response?
[KateDenHaag] My Gp says that my daughter may be hyper-sensitive… should I wait longer than 6 mths

[Gill Rapley] Where there is a family history of allergy there is good reason to go gently - especially avoiding known problem foods. But nobody really knows how long you should wait. But interestingly, I have come across a lot of reports of babies who wouldn’t eat certain foods - and were later found to be allergic to them. It would be good to have more research in this area, but it’s just poosible that trusting the baby is all that’s needed.

[emz1] I’ve been giving Jessica carrot for the last few days, and what I do is steam it until it’s really soft. However, do I need to worry about making things really soft? Is it better to offer her carrot etc that’s like I’d eat it, instead of trying to make it as soft as possible?

[Gill Rapley] It’s fine to give foods of all textures - that’s part of what makes it fun for the baby. A raw carrot is fun to gnaw - and is very unlikely to be bitten off. Al dente is probably best for mealtimes - too soft and it just gets squashed! But part of all this is learning for the baby. It’s great fun to watch them learn how to hold something without squashing it! Shape is also important. When they are first starting, babies can’t release things from their fist, so the need foods which are chip-shaped or have a ‘handle’ (like broccoli). This is probably a built-in safety mechanism since a very young baby won’t be able to pick a raisin, for example. By the time he can, his mouth skills will have developed to manage it safely.

[emz1] thank you

[Zanna] I am thinking about further on, I have a 2 1/2 year old that needs encouragement to eat anything. If I didn’t jolly him on he would still rely on breastmilk alone. I don’t make him “clear his plate” and let him tell me he is full, but how does this balance with BLW? Will a BLW toddler really manage own appetite to that extent?

[Gill Rapley] Hi Zanna. Not sure I know the answer. I have only kept in long-term contact with a handful of babies from my study but I am told they are still good eaters (they are about 2 1/2). Was your son introduced to solids in a blw way? Another disclaimer …All this is largley theoretical, though (as explained) based on known facts which have not been linked together till now.

[Zanna] he was started on purees at 7 mths and then went to finger foods quickly, but no, in that he was spoon fed a lot of meals. He will eat nothing if i let him, just asking for milk, so i am not sure that I would want to let him self manage,

[Gill Rapley] It is interesting to read books on managing older children with feeding/eating problems. the golden rule seems to be ‘give the control back to the child’. My question is ‘waht if we’d never taken it away?’

[Annalisa] But what if we have? How do we give it back???

[Gill Rapley] I don’t feel equipped to comment on children who weren’t allowed the degree of control that blw involves from the beginning. That’s not really a cop-out, it’s just that they have moved away from the self-feeding continuum that begins at birth when the baby self attaches to the breast, this is why I also hesitate about babies who have been bottle-fed. It’s the difference between following a logical theory (which I am keen to do) and branching out into speculation - which I’m not.

[Zanna] But you think a toddler that was BLW will self manage

[Gill Rapley] Zanna - Yes, I fully believe that a a toddler who was BLW will self-manage. There is no reason to suppose they will suddenly stop at 2 yrs, 3 yrs, 10 yrs or 20. One problem is that we just don’t know for how long breastmilk might be enough. In some countries they give it to sick adults and old men, so it’s obviously pretty nutritious stuff!

[clairebecky] Hi, my daughter is 5 months and I haven’t begun solids yet, but I was just wondering about introducing meat, as I know my son found this difficult to chew until quite late on so I used to use minced meat in sloppy foods for him as he was weaned at 4 months in the traditional way! But surely meat forms part of a balanced diet and is important for iron? (I myself don’t eat meat but don’t want to withold it from my kids until they can make their own minds up!)

[Gill Rapley] babies can get a lot of meat juices from sucking it. If you are worried, by all means give some mince. We don’t really know enough about the iron thing. there is research to show that babies who continue on breastmilk alone don’t get anaemic. My own theory (and I stress it’s mine, but based on what we do know..) is that it may be the rush to introduce drinks (not foods) which carries the real risk. After all, which drink has more iron, water (or juice) - or breastmilk?

[clairebecky] Thanks - i look forward to trying your approach but am waiting till she hits 6 months! lol

[Annalisa] Then we’d better let you go Gill, before you start thinking this is Hotel California (unless Rosie’s Q is really short?)

[Gill Rapley] I don’t mind carrying on a bit longer - but my typing skills are really going down the pan!

[Annalisa] Don’t worry Gill, you tell us when you need to go

[Gill Rapley] Hi Rosie

[Rosie] hi - Gill you say ”it is important to offer a range of foods and let the baby decide.” Does that mean we should offer several different foods at each meal so they can choose what they’d like? Or do you just mean a varied diet in general?

[Gill Rapley] A range of foods at each meal is probably a good idea. But it doesn’t have to be vast! If you’re having a balanced meal yourself, then allow the baby to sample a bit of everything.

[115vaw] I tried this approach with some sweet potato (mushy) and carrot (hard) and broccili (disgusting) and made little progress. My fear is she wont be really eating solids for months this way! Yet she seems to love baby rice off a spoon so I’m confused which way to go. Do you think some babies will like and do better with purees and some with finger foods? Is it possible blw is not right for my baby - dont want to stop her apparent enjoyment of slop

[Gill Rapley] Hi Val. Assuming your baby has been fully breastfed up till now and her development is normal, there is no reason to think that blw isn’t for her. Nature doesn’t play tricks like that! However you don’t say how old she is? We are only talking about INTRODUCING solids at six months. It should take the next six for the baby to get really good at it!

[115vaw] 6 months 3 weeks.

[Gill Rapley] Once she gets the plot, she’ll storm ahead! rememeber - to her it’s just play and exploration at this stage - breastmilk is still enough

[clairebecky] Sorry to but in - but what about salt? I obviously wouldn’t add it to veg etc but many adult foods contain high levels of salt - esp sauces???

[Gill Rapley] Salt - righto

[clairebecky] just wondered cos many adult foods contain lots of salt

[Gill Rapley] It is best to cook without salt for babies. If you follow the blw theory, the baby should be given the chance to decide for himself whether he wants salt! There was a study done in the 70s which involved giving 8 month-old babies the chance to choose what they ate. they are all given a little pot of salt to dip into if they chose. Some tried it but none ate any quantity. if it’s already in teh food, they have no choice.

[Charlotte] I think what Claire meant was if they are eating off your plate and the sauces have salt etc

[clairebecky] I wouldnt add it of course, but was thinking that much of the food we eat already contains salt

[Gill Rapley] You’re right. Salt is a big problem in teh western owrld. If you can go back to basic foods for babies, that’s probably safest.

[clairebecky] Would still mean preparing their food seperately much of the time then

[Gill Rapley] Something flashed through my mind just them but it’s gone! maybe I can hang around and see if it comes back?

[Annalisa] You hang out Gill!

[Gill Rapley] Clairebecky …Many people simply cook everything without salt and let the adults add it on their own plates. As a spin–off it can mean that the adults lose their taste for it.

[clairebecky] haha well I am afraid that we do eat quite a bit of processed stuff which is why i was thinking it will be unsuitable for Emily! Maybe I should try harder to prepare fresh meals for us all!!! lol

[abi113] How quickly should I move from one to three meals
[abi113] She is 7.5 months and I just started the other day eating with us at lunch time but she is really keen at all times we eat , would it be ok to let her try food each time we eat?

[Gill Rapley] 9:08 pm: Hi Abi, blw is about letting the baby join in the activity - eating comes later! I would recommend trying to include the baby whenever anyone else is eating rather than think of set mealtimes. that way, once s/he is skilled, you will find out the times of day when his/her appetite is greatest.

[abi113] ok thanks ! Its going really well . It was very clear when she became ready and she is loving taking part in all the meals . BLW makes so much more sense!

[Gill Rapley] Interesting! She doesn’t think of it as eating yet -’food’ is probably still milk - what she sees you doing is outside her frame of reference of what constitutes food. But she wants to have a go at what you’re doing!

[Tomsmum] My HV said that 6 months was the LATEST for starting solids otherwise you have missed the developmental window for the skills involved (Chewing etc). i take it that this isn’t true - is there a too late?

[Gill Rapley] Sadly, your HV is out of date. I think there probably is a too late, but it’s to do with babies being keen to explore rather than anything to do with chewing. What we know about babies’ development shows that their skills with chewing are developing at about the same rate as their interest in the world - and in exploring with their mouth, in particular …: I therefore expect that ‘too late’ would be when a child was no longer interested in putting new things in their mouth.

[KateDenHaag] So best to start sometime after 6 mths and let child choose… but not leave it past 12mths???

[Gill Rapley] Yes. In theory, of course, you could start at birth - provided the baby is in control, they won’t get going till 6 mths + anyway! I’m sure that’s what cavewomen did. If you think about it, what we tend to do is to STOP babies touching food until the age when we decide they can!

[Tiphphinne] what if your child shows all the signs before 6 months

[Gill Rapley] Tiphinne: Probably important to clarify what you mean by ‘all the signs’

[Tiphphinne] I mean he is grabbing at foods, watching us eat….things like that

[Gill Rapley] How old is he?

[Tiphphinne] 5 months

[Gill Rapley] Some babies are always going to be ready before others and some later - they don’t all crawl or walk at the same age.

[Tiphphinne] I agree, but how do I know if he is TRULY ready

[Gill Rapley] I’d be inclined to let him try. I’m willing to bet that he will get very little inside him for a few weeks anyway. An earlier chatter commented that her baby wasn’t making much progress at 6 mths 3 wks. they all go at their own pace but the progress can be slower than we expect. The blw theory says you know a baby is truly ready when they do it! But you can’t find that out unless you give them the opportunity to show you. What we don’t do is give babies that opportunity!

[Gill Rapley] Sorry - on a roll here - bear with me ..

[Annalisa] You go Gill!

[Gill Rapley] When we put a newborn baby on the floor to kick we are giving him the opportunity to walk - the only thing holding him back is his own developmental ability. What I suggest we should do is simply apply the same principle to self-feeding.

[Annalisa] And also Gill - when you’re ready - I’d like to know how that ties in with the virgin gut? Does it automatically follow that a baby will know his gut has ’sealed’ (apologies for lack of scientific language)

[Gill Rapley] Annalisa … The baby doesn’t ‘know’ his gut has sealed any more than he knows his legs are strong enough to support hime when he gets up to walk. it just seems to be that nature has ensured that all the various systems (gut, oral skills, immunity and manipulation) develop in parallel. So if a baby can’t pick up a piece of food and get it to his mouth it’s a fair bet his gut is still too immature to receive it.

[Gill Rapley] But when he can …
[Gill Rapley] Does this make sense?

Tiphphinne] Yes it does

[Annalisa] Thanks Gill!

[KateDenHaag] Evie has grabbed 2 bits of food… apple which she sucked and carrot that she chewed a bit off and ate – both nights she woke about 2 hrs after bedtime with all the signs of indigestion. She was 5mths+ when this happened… I took this to mean she should wait – what do you think?

[Gill Rapley] It’s common for babies to wake at night so it could have been coincidence. On the other hand, it’s not so strange to expect the gut to need to adjust, even if it is ready for the change. Can I just check: was she definitely sitting upright when she bit off and swallowed the carrot? It’s important that gravity doesn’t override the baby’s ability (or rather inability) to consciously move food to the back of the throat.

[KateDenHaag] She always wakes at night… but was in discomfort and had sicky burps… and didn’t want to feed. Yes… bolt upright on my lap and gave it a blooming good chomp!!! Both times she has swiped from my toddler when I was chatting (oops)

[Gill Rapley] My experience is that babies who start on solids at any age show changes in their gut. Certainly their poo gets VERY smelly!

[Annalisa] Gill you probably want to get on with your evening, you’ve given us soo much of your time already

[Gill Rapley] I have to go at 10.00 for definite

[Gill Rapley] What I was going to say was that there have been studies of monkeys which show that they seem to be able to link stomach upsets and pains with certain foods and learn not to eat them again. Maybe babies have this ability too? Maybe they won’t keep eating foods that have upset them once or twice?

[Annalisa] babies seem to be much cleverer than some people have given them credit for!

[Gill Rapley] Right on! Babies are brilliant!
[Gill Rapley] Whats amazing is that we think we can do better than nature/babies

[emz1] Jessica’s nappies haven’t been more smelly since having carrot, it just comes out looking exactly how it looked when it went in! Is
this normal?

[Gill Rapley] Let’s not confuse taking food to the mouth for the first time with eating! As our earlier chatter pointed out, her baby started at 6 mths but had ’still’ not got the plot 3 weeks later. babies take a while to learn any new skill - and the gut is continuting to develop while all this is going on
[Gill Rapley] Carrot in carrot out …
[Gill Rapley] OK It appears that the gut takes a while to really get going. What is interesting is that, with purees, you don’t necessarily notice this as you can’t distinguish lumps in the poo. But it’s almost certainly happening the same way. In fact, it’s just occurred to me that the fact that we use purees for very young babies probably masks the fact that they aren’t digesting the stuff!… I remember vividly a baby whose mum started to give purees at 10 weeks and the baby stopped gaining weight. Then she stopped the solids and weight went on again. Clearly that baby’s tummy was being filled up with what might as well have been wallpaper paste, leaving less room for breastmilk (which she COULD digest)

[Annalisa] My daughter is obsessed with cappuccino, Gill, surely BLW has limits?

[Gill Rapley] Annalisa: Maybe. But is cappucino so much worse than what some people feed their babies??

[Annalisa] no! you are so right Gill!
[Tiphphinne] that is such a good point Gill!
[Annalisa] Raffy will be very happy to hear that, she is a very Italian baby
[Zanna] hmmm yes!

[Gill Rapley] I often sit and daydream of all these babies growing up and complaining loudly when they go out to eat with their parents and are offered the ‘children’s menu’!

[KateDenHaag] My daughter refuses nuggets but eats cassolet (beans, duck sausage)… the french waiter nearly fell off his perch. I on the other hand only got to eat half my dinner: … she was 13mths at the time
[Tiphphinne] Jackson has been much the same, he wont eat the kids menue either

[Annalisa] Gill did you do BLW with your children/child?

[Gill Rapley] Sadly, no, not fully. I started at 4 mths with my first and wasted HOURS making little ice cubes of mush. When he was 5 mths he got a cold and wanted breastmilk only and then I somehow forgot to start again! He was weaned the second time onto baked beans, on a night when he got realy excited when we were eating beans on toast. After that he did it all with his fingers. For some inexplicable reason I went back to purees with my second! But my third I don’t remember at all - she just did it herself

[Annalisa] i wish i had done blw with raffy but i guess it’s not too late. do you think you feel so passoinately about it cos you didn’t do it and wish you had?

[Gill Rapley] Possibly. But I think it’s got more to do with my passion for sharing how clever babies are

[Charlotte] yes its quite fascinating!

[Rosie] Hope has always preferred finger foods so I guess in a way she was telling me that was how she wanted to do it, I’m now phasing the purees out and she’s much happier with it all

[Gill Rapley] Nice, Rosie

[Annalisa] when is your book out gill, when when when? i hope you will include a chapter for those babies that may not have been weaned the BL way but now their mothers wnat to know what to do!

[Gill Rapley] The book is going rather slowly at the moment, but it’ll get there!

[Zanna] when do you think the right time to introduce a drink with food?

[Gill Rapley] Zanna.. I think the right time to introduce a drink is when the baby shows readiness! When they reach out to your cup and don’t just tip it upside down! This is provided you are breastfeeding of course - there is no drink which is superior to breastmilk - at any age (except gin and tonic, of course!)
[Gill Rapley] The drink issue is only a social thing

[Rosie] rofl @gin and tonic!

[Charlotte] hehehe
[Rosie] Hope got really into drinks at about 8 months
[Zanna] Am pleased with the Gand T answer!!

[Gill Rapley] I should stress: G and T is not for babies - they just don’t appreciate it!

[Annalisa] But they can get the G&T through the bm anyway!

[Cathy2] Before you dash off Gill, can I just say a HUGE thank you. Ben is now just over 12 months and we started blw 6 months ago and compared to my experience with mush with my first son it has just been fabulous! It all makes so much sense and it has truly been a pleasure so thank you from me and from Ben

[Gill Rapley] Thanks, Cathy

[Diana] Thanks Gill, it’s been fascinating.
[Rosie] Thank you so much Gill, it’s been fascinating. I will certainly be using this method from the word go with all future babies!!
[Zanna] I would like to say Thankyou too, I am really enjoying the fun of food this time round, althoguh kind of missing the puree making! LOL

[Gill Rapley] My Pleasure, I’ve had a ball!

[Charlotte] thank you Gill for speding so long with us!

[Annalisa] Yes thanks SO MUCH Gill, you’ll have influenced lots of people tonight and thanks so much for spending so much of your time with us

End Log - 10pm

Chat on our starting solids forum.